The global backlash against women’s rights, Me Too six years on, why AI is quietly replicating old prejudices at scale, and what we can do about it.

Sharp, funny, fierce and full of hope. Tracey Spicer spent three decades anchoring national programs for the ABC, Ten and Sky News. She’s a multiple Walkley winner, an Order of Australia recipient, and accepted the global Sydney Peace Prize alongside Tarana Burke for the Me-Too movement. Her TEDx Talk has nearly seven million views, she is one of Australia’s most recognised voices, and she’s using it louder than ever.

Now, through her book Man-Made, she’s sounding the alarm on the bias being baked into AI and pulling absolutely no punches.

Show Note:

Jennifer introduces Tracey Spicer as a renowned Australian media figure with over three decades of experience who’s now focusing on AI bias through her book “Man Made.” The two quickly bond over their shared “bogan” backgrounds from the outskirts of Brisbane, establishing a foundation of authenticity for their conversation.

UN conference and Malala’s powerful moment @ 1:49

Tracey recounts her experience at the UN Commission on the Status of Women, which had lower attendance due to safety concerns for women of color traveling to the US. She describes the powerful moment when Malala called for gender inequity to be codified as a crime against humanity, creating an emotional rallying point despite the overall feeling of global backlash against women’s rights.

Global rollback of women’s rights @ 6:21

Both discuss the alarming scale of the current backlash against women’s rights, noting it’s happening across every country with violence against women increasing. Tracey offers a balanced perspective, acknowledging that while progress may not be linear, the long arc of feminist history shows consistent forward movement despite periodic setbacks.

Intergenerational feminist collaboration @ 8:15

The conversation highlights the power of combining different generational perspectives on feminism. Tracey emphasizes how young women’s fierce energy complements older women’s wisdom, creating a powerful force for change. They agree that collective action and solidarity across generations are crucial for progress.

Me Too movement’s impact six years later @ 16:22

Reflecting on Me Too’s legacy, Tracey notes significant improvements in women feeling empowered to speak out and positive legislative changes around consent. However, she observes that workplace harassment has evolved to become more covert and tech-facilitated, making it harder for victims to document and report. The positive duty now placed on employers in Australia represents progress.

Positive masculinity countering the manosphere @ 18:36

Both celebrate the emergence of positive male role models and organizations like “The Man Cave” that work with young men to promote healthy masculinity. Tracey emphasizes the importance of peer-to-peer influence among young men as more effective than parental advice, while still valuing family discussions to counter harmful online influences.

AI bias and its real-world consequences @ 23:24

Tracey explains how AI systems, primarily designed by young white men in Silicon Valley, perpetuate historical biases through their algorithms and data sets. She provides concrete examples of how this affects women and marginalized groups in critical areas like loan applications, healthcare resource allocation, and social services decisions, revealing how deeply these biases impact everyday life.

Digital exclusion mirroring real-world discrimination @ 28:28

The discussion explores how AI systems erase or misrepresent women, older people, and those with disabilities. Tracey shares examples of AI-generated images that remove assistive devices, consistently age women inappropriately, and perpetuate outdated stereotypes. They note how this digital exclusion directly reflects and reinforces real-world discrimination.

Practical steps for ethical AI engagement @ 31:56

Tracey offers practical advice for women engaging with AI, recommending Claude over ChatGPT for more ethical interactions. She suggests taking AI courses to understand how the technology works, actively teaching AI models when they display bias (“machine teaching”), and changing voice assistant genders to challenge stereotypes – male voices at home and female voices in workplaces.

Media power structures replicated in tech @ 37:36

Drawing on her decades in media, Tracey observes how power disparities persist despite surface-level diversity improvements. She notes alarming parallels between today’s tech sector and the male-dominated media landscape of the 1980s, with power and money still concentrated among similar demographics. This pattern inspired her to write about AI bias.

Protopia: A balanced vision for technology @ 41:02

Tracey introduces “protopia” as an alternative to dystopian or utopian views of technology’s future – a middle path where technology is incrementally incorporated to benefit humanity. She describes encouraging global movements toward more ethical AI, particularly among “middle power” countries collaborating on better approaches, and highlights First Nations leadership in sovereign AI and data ownership. 

Final wisdom and personal reflection @ 45:08

The interview concludes with Tracey sharing what she would tell her younger self: “Fight the good fight” earlier in life. She expresses her wish to give young people the confidence and courage to stand up for themselves and others sooner. Both affirm the importance of listening to wise elders for humanity’s progress toward a “protopian” future.

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